On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Dan W engnerdan@... [DynoMotion] <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Chris,

Check out Tech AC servos. I bought mine from MachMotion.com. I know I have seen then on aliexpress. I don't know the servo model number but I know the drives are TSTA 20 and 30's (JSTA I think are a newer version of the same drive). I am using 750 watt for my X and Y and a 1000 watt with brake on my Z (200-300 lb head) with no counter  alance and no where near maxing out the power. These servos have been very easy to setup and use. 

I am using then with an analog speed input and using the encoder output back to a Kanalog.  But I know they can take a step/direction input too. 

Dan

Group: DynoMotion	Message: 10966	From: baltar.chris	Date: 1/31/2015
Subject: Re: Looking to upgrade my steppers to servos or hybrid servos

Hi Dan, Thank you very much for your comments I will do a little more research but buying direct from machmotion is above my price range but I have found several at Alibaba that look incredibly similar.  I will look into getting a Kanalog.  Are you using the Mach plugin or just running everything from KMotionCNC? -chris ---In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, <engnerdan@...> wrote : Chris, Check out Tech AC servos. I bought mine from MachMotion.com. I know I have seen then on aliexpress. I don't know the servo model number but I know the drives are TSTA 20 and 30's (JSTA I think are a newer version of the same drive). I am using 750 watt for my X and Y and a 1000 watt with brake on my Z (200-300 lb head) with no counter  alance and no where near maxing out the power. These servos have been very easy to setup and use.  I am using then with an analog speed input and using the encoder output back to a Kanalog.  But I know they can take a step/direction input too.  Dan Group: DynoMotion Message: 10967 From: baltar.chris Date: 1/31/2015 Subject: Re: Looking to upgrade my steppers to servos or hybrid servos Colin, Thank you for sharing indeed these look interesting almost like a hybrid servo. I will research it a bit more and see if these are a good fit for what I am trying to accomplish.. price wise very intriguing!  Have you seen anybody on the forms that have used these? What do you use on your machine? -Chris ---In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, <colin.fera@...> wrote : Check out these all in one brushless servo and drives https://www.teknic.com/products/clearpath-brushless-dc-servo-motors/wizard/   These look to be about the same cost as stepper motors / drives.  They don't have position output so they close the loop in the drive like the easy steppers.   I haven't used them but I like the idea. On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Dan W engnerdan@... [DynoMotion] <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Chris, Check out Tech AC servos. I bought mine from MachMotion.com. I know I have seen then on aliexpress. I don't know the servo model number but I know the drives are TSTA 20 and 30's (JSTA I think are a newer version of the same drive). I am using 750 watt for my X and Y and a 1000 watt with brake on my Z (200-300 lb head) with no counter  alance and no where near maxing out the power. These servos have been very easy to setup and use.  I am using then with an analog speed input and using the encoder output back to a Kanalog.  But I know they can take a step/direction input too.  Dan Group: DynoMotion Message: 10968 From: Tapio Larikka Date: 1/31/2015 Subject: Re: Looking to upgrade my steppers to servos or hybrid servos  Hi Chris!   I just got one of these: http://hzmgdj.en.alibaba.com/product/444065637-218414666/600w_brushless_motor.html   Cost was $452,- including $72 for delivery.   The driver and motor both atleast look very good. I got the motor moving Mach/Kflop, but in few weeks I get so far that I have the motor installed and tuned so I can tell more about the performance.   Rgds, Tapio     Group: DynoMotion Message: 10969 From: Colin Fera Date: 1/31/2015 Subject: Re: Looking to upgrade my steppers to servos or hybrid servos Hey Chris, I don't know anyone that has run them.  They seem to be more of an industrial item, not targeting the maker market. I think these are brushless servos and not closed loop steppers if thats what you mean by hybrid servo. I have 35 year old original nema 42 steppers, that I am looking to upgrade to servos of some kind.  I like that these would simplify wiring lots, have many different options in terms of torque and rated speed,  are made in USA and have a 3 year warranty, but I havn't purchased them yet. -Colin On Sat, Jan 31, 2015 at 12:36 AM, baltar.chris@... [DynoMotion] <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Colin, Thank you for sharing indeed these look interesting almost like a hybrid servo. I will research it a bit more and see if these are a good fit for what I am trying to accomplish.. price wise very intriguing!  Have you seen anybody on the forms that have used these? What do you use on your machine? -Chris ---In DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com, <colin.fera@...> wrote : Check out these all in one brushless servo and drives https://www.teknic.com/products/clearpath-brushless-dc-servo-motors/wizard/   These look to be about the same cost as stepper motors / drives.  They don't have position output so they close the loop in the drive like the easy steppers.   I haven't used them but I like the idea. On Fri, Jan 30, 2015 at 4:34 PM, Dan W engnerdan@... [DynoMotion] <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Chris, Check out Tech AC servos. I bought mine from MachMotion.com. I know I have seen then on aliexpress. I don't know the servo model number but I know the drives are TSTA 20 and 30's (JSTA I think are a newer version of the same drive). I am using 750 watt for my X and Y and a 1000 watt with brake on my Z (200-300 lb head) with no counter  alance and no where near maxing out the power. These servos have been very easy to setup and use.  I am using then with an analog speed input and using the encoder output back to a Kanalog.  But I know they can take a step/direction input too.  Dan Group: DynoMotion Message: 10973 From: timbosaurus Date: 2/1/2015 Subject: Re: Looking to upgrade my steppers to servos or hybrid servos Hi Chris, I cant speak from experience, but I'm really keen to hear how you go.  I've been looking at the same thing to close the loop on my router (CNC3040) that already has been upgraded to kflop, and I was leaning towards those hybrid servo's in you first link (about $250 delivered each for motor/driver/cables). Their interface looks well suited to use with Kflops step/dir output (http://dynomotion.com/Help/StepAndDirection/StepAndDir.htm), although I think you would configure kflop to be in open loop mode because the driver is setup to close the loop. I haven't looked into those AC servo's, mainly because I've never played with the whole synchronisation side of brushless motors... so I'll just stay clear until I have a need.  :) Regards, Tim Group: DynoMotion Message: 10975 From: engnerdan Date: 2/2/2015 Subject: Re: Looking to upgrade my steppers to servos or hybrid servos Chris,  I just realized due to auto correct I had the wrong name. They are TECO AC Servos.  I have 750 watt motors on my X and Y they are  Motor - DMT-075-302  Drive - TSTA-20C Cables (5 meter) - CKT-075-05M My Z axis is a 1000 watt motor with brake Motor - DMT-100-202-B Drive - TSTA-30C Cables (3 meter) - CKT-100-03M I think TECO has updated their drives and the current models on their webpage are JSDA. This maybe a new model or maybe they have different model numbers for different countries.  These are not the cheapest servo and drive out there but they are good. One step cheaper would be DMM tech out of Canada. They sell a Chinese made servo where the TECO are made in Taiwan. I see DMM has updated their models and seem to have a better looking system now.  The TECO servo drives will take any standard input. -10vdc to 10vdc (analog input mode), step and direction, and serial. Looking at the DYN4 models at DMM Tech it looks like they can take a step and direction or analog input too.  -Dan  Group: DynoMotion Message: 10978 From: Keith Gibbons Date: 2/2/2015 Subject: Re: Looking to upgrade my steppers to servos or hybrid servos Chris, I haven't got these running yet so cannot comment on performance but pricing/specs/quality seems good. Shipping by Anaheim Automation was fast and goods well packed. Power & encoder & tuning cables are free if you by a drive/servo as a packaged set. https://www.anaheimautomation.com/products/servo/servo-systems-item.php?sID=439&serID=7&pt=i&tID=1106&cID=527 I'm using(3) of the PKS-PRO-E-10-A-JP22 1000watt package on a milling machine. Will update you on performance & ease of tuning when I get them mounted and wired. Keith   Group: DynoMotion Message: 10979 From: Tom Kerekes Date: 2/2/2015 Subject: Re: Looking to upgrade my steppers to servos or hybrid servos Hi Chris, One problem we sometimes have with the Leadshine drives is the Direction Setup Time.   Some of the Leadshine drives require a relatively large 5us and KFLOP only provides a maximum of 4us.  I wasn't able to see a specification on the link you provided.  You might see this post: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/DynoMotion/conversations/messages/10194 Regards TK Group: DynoMotion Message: 10992 From: baltar.chris Date: 2/2/2015 Subject: Re: Looking to upgrade my steppers to servos or hybrid servos Thank you for this insight Tom,  any other gotcha's like this I need to watch for. Really do appreciate the knowledge that is shared amongst people in this form for the KFLOP and systems as a whole! Regards, -Chris Group: DynoMotion Message: 10995 From: baltar.chris Date: 2/2/2015 Subject: Re: Looking to upgrade my steppers to servos or hybrid servos Hi Dan, I really appreciate the follow up when looking at the site you showed I assume you meant the TECO brand.  I have been looking through their options as well as the DMM.  The biggest plus I see here you own them and using them and like them... That is half the battle when buying and interfacing things at least there is a level of confidence in it. I appreciate the extra details for your motors and drivers.  I really like the idea of the brake being built into your Z-axis.. mine always falls and I hate the idea of a gravity spring or other options I have seen out there. Your method will require me to buy Kanalog but that gives me some much needed I/O expansion that I could really use anyway. thanks again! -Chris Group: DynoMotion Message: 10997 From: baltar.chris Date: 2/2/2015 Subject: Re: Looking to upgrade my steppers to servos or hybrid servos Hi Keith, They look really nice but im looking at the 400-600 W models and they are above what I want to pay.  They look very nice however.  Decisions, Decisions... Thank you for sharing. -Chris Group: DynoMotion Message: 11207 From: baltar.chris Date: 3/13/2015 Subject: Re: Looking to upgrade my steppers to servos or hybrid servos Want to thank you all for your comments and suggestions.  Strange how things like this morph into final decisions. Eventially I settled on using DMM Technologies DMM | NEW DYN2 AC Servo Drive | AC SERVO DRIVE | AC SERVO MOTOR | ROTARY ENCODER DMM | NEW DYN2 AC Servo Drive | AC SERVO DRIVE ... DMM Industry Standard, High Performance, Reliable, Low-cost AC Servo System for Industrial Automation Motion Control View on www.dmm-tech.com Preview by Yahoo   I now have 4 x 400 Watt motors and drivers just staring at me begging me to upgrade my CNC. Now I think I have too many options on output/inputs type.  Anybody care to comment the best option to interface back to the KFLOP?  This driver can support Pulse+Sign, A/B Phase Quadrature 90° Phase Differential, CW+CCW.  Would it be better for me long term to buy a Kannalog which would essentially future proof my machine or interface everything through the KFLOP and buy a Konnect for handeling all my many inputs, lights, cooling, independent homing, 3-4 estops, etc..? Thanks again to everybody for the comments and suggestions. -Chris   Group: DynoMotion Message: 11209 From: Colin Fera Date: 3/13/2015 Subject: Re: Looking to upgrade my steppers to servos or hybrid servos Very nice. If you don't mind how much?   -Colin On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 1:17 AM, baltar.chris@... [DynoMotion] <DynoMotion@yahoogroups.com> wrote:   Want to thank you all for your comments and suggestions.  Strange how things like this morph into final decisions. Eventially I settled on using DMM Technologies DMM | NEW DYN2 AC Servo Drive | AC SERVO DRIVE | AC SERVO MOTOR | ROTARY ENCODER DMM | NEW DYN2 AC Servo Drive | AC SERVO DRIVE ... DMM Industry Standard, High Performance, Reliable, Low-cost AC Servo System for Industrial Automation Motion Control View on www.dmm-tech.com Preview by Yahoo   I now have 4 x 400 Watt motors and drivers just staring at me begging me to upgrade my CNC. Now I think I have too many options on output/inputs type.  Anybody care to comment the best option to interface back to the KFLOP?  This driver can support Pulse+Sign, A/B Phase Quadrature 90° Phase Differential, CW+CCW.  Would it be better for me long term to buy a Kannalog which would essentially future proof my machine or interface everything through the KFLOP and buy a Konnect for handeling all my many inputs, lights, cooling, independent homing, 3-4 estops, etc..? Thanks again to everybody for the comments and suggestions. -Chris   Group: DynoMotion Message: 11210 From: Tapio Larikka Date: 3/13/2015 Subject: Re: Looking to upgrade my steppers to servos or hybrid servos  Hi Chris!   My vote goes to Kanalog and AC servos with +/-10volt speed command.   I just finished connecting a chinese ac servo to my mill and I'm happy with it. Tuning took a while longer than the previous mitsubishi drives, but then again the chinese including 3 meter cables costs les than a mitsu motor.   The cost of chinese servo was about the same as the one for 400watt DMM motor/drive, but chinese motor is 600watt/1.93Nm and drive is AC220volt input (1/3phase), so no power source needed.   Rgds, Tapio   Group: DynoMotion Message: 11218 From: baltar.chris Date: 3/15/2015 Subject: Re: Looking to upgrade my steppers to servos or hybrid servos just about 1700 with all the cables which are extra long to span all my different routes. 4 drivers and 4 motors 1 of which has a custom brake for my z axis which should have no issues holding my 200+lb Z axis.  Overall very excited cant wait to start overhauling my current CNC. -Chris Group: DynoMotion Message: 11219 From: baltar.chris Date: 3/15/2015 Subject: Re: Looking to upgrade my steppers to servos or hybrid servos Hi Tapio, Thanks for the reply any reason why you would choose the +/- 10V speed command vs the other options?  I was very tempted to get one of the many Chinese motors that I saw out there in the world I have been running a Chinese water cooled spindle for 2 years now with no issues, knock on wood! I do like that I can use one 110V source to my supply which drives all 4 of my motors.  my spindle gets my soul 220V plug in the garage..   I guess if I were in a dedicated shop I would love to have everything on independent 220V sources. Thanks for the comment. -Chris Group: DynoMotion Message: 11220 From: Tapio Larikka Date: 3/15/2015 Subject: Re: Looking to upgrade my steppers to servos or hybrid servos  Hi Chris,   I think my favoring +/-10V speed command is propably mostly feeling based decision. Don't know if there is really big difference performance vise but it just feels like waste of effort having the controller the pulses and the drive decode the same thing. Pulses can get lost or added depending on disturbances but I think same applies to analog speed command and stray inductances. Can also be that experience with Mach and parallel port makes me lean away from pulsing when possible.   Shortage of 220VAC is certainly an issue. I'm in Europe so I don't have that problem, all wallplugs are 220VAC. While that makes it easy for me to use the chinese drives it also forces me to oversize the drives a bit since powering 3phase drive from 1phase supply limits the current to 2/3's of drive max.   Chinese spindles: I've got one of those too, it's actually air cooled, since I felt I wanted to save the extra $30. It's actually surprising  that I can't see any wear or problems with it since I run it 8-10 hours/day, machining AISI316L, with (again) chinese carbide end mills.   Rgds, Tapio   PS: The above should not be seen as advocation or promotion of chinese goods. It's just that sofar in my experience everything I've ordered and received from china has been of equal quality and at 1/3 of the price of local offerings. It may well be that one day my luck runs out...